Posts by jonathan dough

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Does anyone actually take this Aguest fellow serious?

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Interesting links. I never thought of it that way, but it is a theory. I find the bottom quote from the Time article interesting.

Jesus the Pharisee has significant omissions: it does not touch on such salient matters as the Resurrection, the messiahship of Jesus, or the belief that his death atoned for the sins of all humanity. Lawrence Schiffman, a critic of the book who is a professor of Hebrew and Judaic studies at New York University, says that Falk "has bought a stereotype of the School of Shammai, who in reality were good Jews and good Pharisees." Schiffman believes that there will not be a scholarly acceptance of the book's thesis.

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Same with Christianity, though I don' think the Almighty created evil.

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
I know, that's a tough one. Maybe it turns on what "create evil" means. Maybe someone has a better understanding. I just don't read it so narrowly. I don't think God created the evil that stuffed the Jews into the ovens. I don't see Him responsible for it.

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Jesus was a pharisee. Did you know that?

No. How so?

Doesn't sound like an American expression. I'll go with Great Britain.

Well traveled southern American.

The Alabama variety or Argentina?

13

What are the losers doing tonight?

by John Doe in

jw
friends

.

jonathan dough

posting on this board.

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

Okay, I've whistled up my cat.

Doesn't sound like an American expression. I'll go with Great Britain.

If God didn't want Israel anymore, why draw up a new covenant?

He wanted Israel. That is why He sent Christ to the lost sheep. It might be more correct to say "Because Israel didn't want God anymore as seen by their conduct, he drew up a new covenant." He wanted Israel but he knew, being God, that they as a whole would reject Him. I'm not an expert on the New Covenant. The new covenant spreads the net wider, taking in the Gentiles of the world, and establishing a salvation plan that is not works-based. As Paul the Jewish Pharisee said, and I paraphrase, no one can be justified by works of law, and since the object is salvation it has to be done another way. And the way he chose is by grace, through faith, as a gift, and not by works. Eph 2:9, 10. Through the forgiveness of sin. Out of love.

And why do you think this new covenant is something in the future?

Other references to the covenant in the OT and the NT. I wrote some info here, but it will put you to sleep. I can barely get through it:

http://144000.110mb.com/144000/i-3.html#A

And as far as asking my rabbi, have you ever tried to ask a rabbi anything? Good luck with that.

They strike me as extremely arrogant. Except for Jesus Christ.

I do not know why I came back to this discussion except I am becoming rather fond of you.

That won't last long.

Forgive me if I doze off and start drooling.

Just remember to wipe up.

http://144000.110mb.com/trinity/index-5.html#20

34

My understanding of the "70 Years" and the "Babylonian Exile" (without chronology)

by Doug Mason in

in my view, there needs to be a very clear decoupling of the destruction wrought on jerusalem/judah from the 70 years of servitude/babylonian domination.. .

the destruction was the outcome of the people failing over many centuries to obey god, and it was a conditional prophecy, the outcome of which depended on the people's response.. .

however, the servitude to babylon, experienced by several countries, was an unconditional prophecy.

jonathan dough

Yes. 609 is when the Assyian King Ashureuballit's reign ended. Babylon and the Medes divided the empire among them self. Babylon chose Judah and surrounding countries. Got my info. from Funk and Wagnalls encyclopedia.

I was fishing for the battle of Haran which you probably cover with this. It fits nicely.

"The seventy years began in 609 B.C.E. when the king of Babylon brought to an end the Assyrian Empire at the final battle of Haran; it ended seventy years later in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon fell to the Persians and Medes. During this seventy year period the affected nations of the earth collectively served, and were dominated by, the Babylonian Empire."

http://144000.110mb.com/607/i-2.html

189

How much was Christ's ransom sacrifice? Equal to Adam?

by jonathan dough in

how much was the ransom?

gods justice did not require an exact equivalent man-for-man sacrifice between the first adam and jesus, the second adam.

gods gift required more.

jonathan dough

BTW, that link is to a Sabbath service in case you are ever curious.

I saw that. Thank you.

32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [a] them, [b] "
declares the LORD.

I won't let you get away with this so easily. Surely your Rabbi knows what New Covenant this refers to.

And it doesn't say anything about Christ.

I never claimed it did.

But look, you Christians are certainly free to participate in the covenant.

That's very kind of you, but which one? The Old one your people broke or the New one?

I'm bushed and need to go outside and whistle up my cat.

A cat lover. Then there's still hope for you.

Over and out.

19

What Happens After You Leave?

by Cold Steel in

i'm not a witness, but i have to ask..... what happens after you leave?

do you turn against all religion or do you find another?

people say they're happy when they leave...that they feel free, but i'd hate to think that people give up on everything religious.. if you do stay religious, how many doctrines of the jws do you retain?

jonathan dough

What happens after you leave? Do you turn against all religion or do you find another?

It's mixed.

34

My understanding of the "70 Years" and the "Babylonian Exile" (without chronology)

by Doug Mason in

in my view, there needs to be a very clear decoupling of the destruction wrought on jerusalem/judah from the 70 years of servitude/babylonian domination.. .

the destruction was the outcome of the people failing over many centuries to obey god, and it was a conditional prophecy, the outcome of which depended on the people's response.. .

however, the servitude to babylon, experienced by several countries, was an unconditional prophecy.

jonathan dough

I agree, the 70 years is how long Babylon had world power. And Babylon fell in 539 so add 70 to 539 =609 as the start of Babylon's Supremacy.

Do you know what event triggered 609?